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Audacity Models Pantera 50 - Tiger 50 > Fitting this and fitting that...
 
 
xtremeaerosport
Heliman
Location: Lewes, DE

While reading the posts from MartyH and others about replacing parts with parts from other machines, where and when do we stop calling our helicopter, for instance, a "Pantera" and just call it a helicopter?

Is it just the frames and canopy that make a Pantera a Pantera, not the sum of it's components?

I'm not trying to stir anything up, sheesh, I haven't even hovered my Pantera yet (it still is a Pantera, no cross-level upgrades ) I'm just curious.

I know Marty is making a great bird better by finding what components make the strongest, safest bird, but is Marty's Pantera still a Pantera? If not, what exactly is it?

I guess what I'm getting at is this. We can take the Pantera frame and add the RJX swash and head, Century tail rotor assembly, find some CF boom that fits, replace the landing gear with Spider gear, replace the main gear with a Raptor gear for a different ratio for our BBC, stick a slick custom canopy on there too, V-blades and CY Stubbs for paddles...all we have left are the frame, main shaft, #2 gear for TR drive and the clutch & bell and we really don't have a "Pantera" anymore, except for the sticker on the canopy that says "Pantera"

I can build a kit car that looks like a Ferrari on a Fiero frame, but it ain't a Ferarri.

Sorry for the rant. Marty, I know your intentions are good. Don't stop, and please don't feel that I'm busting on you, I'm not, you are simply the "Aftermarket R&D Guru"

Jon

CPT Jonathan Ott
US Army
11-18-2008 05:12 PM
 
 
MartyH
Key Veteran
Location: Lawrenceburg, Indiana

I dont take that as busting on me at all Jon. The only reason I have been using non-Pantera parts is because what we want or what we need are unavailable from Audacity. The only things I think the Pantera REALLY needs is a better swashplate and a tail that doesnt throw blades. The rest of the stuff we have been doing are personal choices.

The plastic swashes that come on a Pantera simply suck. Yes, technically they will work for a while. If you are new enough that all you are trying to do is hover and fly around a little and do not have the head setup for fast 3D type response, the stock swash works. But, really we need a high quality metal swash. Audacity lists one but it hasnt been available for forever. So, we all went poking around and came up with alternatives. The CCPM version of a Hirobo Sceadu swashplate will work as does the RJX Extreme 50 metal swash and the all metal Quick UK swash designed for the CCPM Sceadu. IF John had swashes in stock, I'd use his.

The other area the Pantera is showing a weakness is in that tail. Thats not just my opinion, it has happened to a number of people. I've lost a Tiger and a Pantera now to a tailblade tearing out of the grip. It's the plastic grip that is failing. Once that happens you have an out of balance situation that immediately bends the tailshaft and you lose all tail authority. My poor Pantera, inverted and out over some trees didnt have much of a chance even with throttle hold. I got out from over the trees and was in throttle hold but still so much stuff bent or broke, I threw it away. I still have one more Pantera and have no faith in that tail. So, we find that the RJX Extreme CNC grips will work as will the entire Cenury 30/60 upgrade tail. There are no doubt others as well.

I like painted fiberglass canopies. I bought a raw fiberglass one from John Beech and had it custom painted. It was not a quality piece of fiberglass and it drove my painter crazy John just doesnt sell enough fiberglass canopies to make worrying about that worth while. I understand that and respect it. He sort of half heartedly looked at a prepainted canopy but we havent heard a peep in MONTHS. But, I still want fiberglass so off I went and we found that the RJX Extreme canopy fits perfectly.

Anyway, all of these alternative parts were sourced from elsewhere because Audacity doesnt have what we want or need. I didn't intend to build a Frankenheli. If John had the metal swashes, a fix for the tail grip problem or fiberglass canopies, I'd be using them.

Marty,
Raptors,Evos, Panteras and more
11-18-2008 07:16 PM
 
 
billrad
Senior Heliman
Location: Rineyville, KY

Just to add, the century swash and tail blades/spindle fit well.

Swap the balls from the audacity swash onto the century swash - the threads match.

An align 600 tail fin and horizontal fin and boom support fits well, and gives you more room for a carbon tail push rod. The tail fin mounting holes match exactly. To use the horizontal fin with stock tail boom support, widen the holes slightly.

I use aftermarket parts that I find other RR members selling. Nothing against Audacity. But, a buck is a buck.

I've done the same thing with all the helis I've owned.

billrad

I may not be able to turn a kit into a plane, but I can turn a plane into a kit...
11-18-2008 08:15 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Heli_Man_Bob
Heliman
Location: Miamisburg, Ohio, US

I call it a Pantera with user added options.

The devil is in the details

Im glad that parts from other models fit. Like having options.

I too had a crash from a failed grip on my Pantera (see Photo below) I bought another set of the stock plastic grips but just didn't have confidence in them any more and started looking for something else. I took a chance and ordered the RJX grips not knowing if they would fit well the gamble paid off. Its not likely that I will throw a tail blade again.

The 3 models I have all have some non stock parts. This has happened for basically two reasons.

1.When a stock part fails breaks or wears prematurely and the cause doesn't appear to be improper setup I look for ways to reduce the risk of such a failure happening again.

2.Stock parts availability and cost competitiveness.

ARK400 - many align parts available and cost effective.

Raptor30 - Kasama head (this may have been over kill expensive but hasn't given me any trouble)and after market swash stock head started having issues its first season after market Pitch lever and push pull for the elavator. Nothing else has failed or worn out in 3 yrs flying 3 times a week during the summer (original stock tail grips)

Pantera - Gohbee Main grips, RJX Swash and tail grips. I will add the Head block from Audacity models this winter.

11-19-2008 02:33 AM
 
 
billm
Key Veteran
Location: Liberty Lake, WA

What tail blades did you fly?
stock blades or a longer carbon?
Never seen that failure before.
ouch.

My name is Billm. Cough, and I'm a Heli Holic
11-19-2008 03:29 AM
 
 
Heli_Man_Bob
Heliman
Location: Miamisburg, Ohio, US

I confess I was using Trex 600 carbons loose in the grips when what you see in the photo happened. They are a little thinner than stock and I was very careful not to let the blade bolts compress the grips.

I am aware of the warning in the manual.

Still I feel better with metal grips more forgiving.

Also same tail blades on my Raptor with stock plastic grips.

Has any one experienced a failure with stock blades?
11-19-2008 03:44 AM
 
 
Rennster
Veteran
Location: Hawaii

I used the Trex 600 carbons as well and the grips in that picture. Same thing happened to me.
What remains of everything nitro and Tiger are on Ebay
11-19-2008 09:07 AM
 
 
MartyH
Key Veteran
Location: Lawrenceburg, Indiana

Nope. I have only used stock blades on the Tigers and Panteras. Look at any picture I have every posted of my Tigers or Panteras and you will see it's always the stock yellow blades. Hey Heli_Man_Bob, see any similarities in our failed grips?! Both our grips both failed in the exact same places and in the same directions.



Marty,
Raptors,Evos, Panteras and more
11-19-2008 10:06 AM
 
 
Machinehead01
Senior Heliman
Location: USA

Tail grip failure

If it's going to fail then you can almost bet that they will all look the same. So you can do 2 things here: 1, think that there truly is a similarity here or 2, realise that centrifical force affects each grip(in each case) in an equal fashion. I have duffed my tail rotor into the ground numerous times and have yet to see any kind of damage, either to the grips or the blades(okay, so some minor scuffing on the blades). I have bent the tail spindle numerous times and bent it back, the LHS Pantera struck tail first this year due to a botched Auto and bent the tail rotor hub assembly, but still no cracked or broken grips. We had it flying again in 2 days with no problems.
I would have to say that most of what you may be running into could still be listed as isolated incidents. Mine and the LHS birds run the tail blades so loose as to flop when barely touched, I have had people tell me that they need to be tighter, but the tail control has never lagged and I haven't ever broken a grip so it stays as is. I might ask how many flights were on your helis when the tails went? Plastic(even engineering grades) do stress and stretch out over time. Even metal will elongate from centrifical forces over a period of time. Take aluminum rods in a racing engine for example, the NHRA boys get 20 to 25 runs max on a set of rods before they can no longer be used due to centrifical stretching. Size for size the amount of force placed upon the grips is extreme to say the least. Now on to the next thought, can you be sure that it was centrifical force or possibly lateral loading forces, that might have caused the failure or possibly both? What was the heli doing at the time of failure? Hard 3D? If your flying it hard then expext the moving parts to wear, this includes the tail grips. Can you tell just by looking if the plastic has been fatigued to the point of failure? I can't. The stress loading placed on the tail is more than just centrifical, combining the centrifical and the lateral loads a tail system faces, if your flying hard on a regular basis do your self a favor and change the grips out more often. IE maintence. Nothing lasts forever, even metal, so why are you expecting a softer material too? Glass filled plastic has the tendency to fracture faster when fatigued, but your caught between the devil and the deep with it because you need the glass to keep the weight of the blades from pulling the bolts through the ends of the grips, IE structural integrity. All in all the grips probably could use some more meat at the ends, but considering how much you pay for this heli and it's solid and forgiving flight characteristics you might just want to increase the time spent on your preflight in the tail area. This is where keeping a flight log and original part measurement data(blurprinting) could help no matter what your level of experience. I might also add, that the added weight of a metal grip WILL increase the inertial mass of the tail, which could invaribly lead to servo failure because of having to work harder to move the load,and higher battery loading as well.

Long winded, yes,but just my 2 cents and experiences from some very long hours in the R&D field.

Thomas

I didn't say it was your fault, I said I was going to blame you!
11-19-2008 04:08 PM
 
 
MartyH
Key Veteran
Location: Lawrenceburg, Indiana

Machinehead, you picked the wrong guy to start talking about plastic fatigue and the centrifical forces on plastic parts. Designing molds and injection molding these materials is all I have done my entire adult life. The Tiger that tossed a blade was hovering at about 1700rpm headspeed. My Pantera was about 1850 inverted in Idle 1, in level flight. The grips need more meat on them to allow a larger margin of safety. Better quality control or a better choice of resin might help as well. Poor material handling, maybe too much regrind or a process problem relating to the "knit lines" (where the plastic flows around the pin that forms the bolt hole in the grips) all play a role as well. There are many variables that need to be considered. These include material selection. Today's engineering resins have incredible properties but require consistant and precise handling. They dont like to be overheated, they cannot reside in the extruder barrel for long periods, they require specific L to D ratios of the extruder and special extruder screws to preventdamage to the glass fibers. The resin must be dried to a proper level and they must have a low percentage of regrind mixed in. Then there is the injection speeds, the injection pressures, the hold time for each speed and pressure and the size and shape of the vents in the mold. Mold temperature is critical with these materials. Even the wrong mold release or ejector pin lubricant can damage the parts. Anyway, its all a big technical soup that can be aided by chosing a good material for the job, more meat in the grips and better quality control in the molding process.

I totally agree that for the price, its hard to beat a Pantera. We're just identifying what we consider a problem and have shared our solution to it. If we thought the Pantera was a disaster we would be dumping them instead of working with them.

Here's a shot of one of the screens used on an injection molding press to setup the most basic injection speeds and pressures.



Marty,
Raptors,Evos, Panteras and more
11-19-2008 05:37 PM
 
 
Machinehead01
Senior Heliman
Location: USA

So you know then...

... That plastic, especially the glass filled, will fatige faster then say, polypro. I didn't disagree with you as to the meat issues at the end or the grips, I'm just staying that do to the way you may be flying and even possibly of shelf life and fuel exposure issues that maybe you need to change out the grips on a more regular basis. You and I both know that glass filled plastic has to be handled with kid gloves (so to speak) concerning the temps, humidity, glass content, and even fiber seperation from the bonding media. I am saying it doesn't last forever, why would you expect it too? Okay, so you weren't being radical with the heli at time of failure, but what is your primary flying stlye like? If you spend more time flying it hard, common sense says spend more time(and money) on your Preventitive Maintence. I think that truthfully, Marty, you would rather complain then do the work. I don't mean to be mean here, but hey dude, you talk more down then up as far as I am concerned. I don't walk in your shoes, never have, never will, IE, don't know how you fly. I am pretty sure that your alot like me as far as that your on the building, implementaion side of things. I have run a small business before with just doing engine repair, it's simple I fix what I can, and order parts for what I can't. To be honest I can't tell you if I could make a living doing just this or not, probably not. So try to place yourself in someone elses shoes and look at it from their persepective. You being a molder, how fast does any decision to make a change happen? And you know what it takes to get the retooling approved and then the new layout, plus the actual tooling then the new prototyping, the testing... DA DA DAH . Now add in the factor that your manufatoring facilities are abroad. Good lord man give the guy some slack HUH!!! Complaining doesn't speed up the process. Want to change it? Call the man up and offer to help if you can!!
I am done, sorry if I bruised any egos here.

Thomas

I didn't say it was your fault, I said I was going to blame you!
11-19-2008 06:15 PM
 
 
MartyH
Key Veteran
Location: Lawrenceburg, Indiana

You have me all wrong Machinehead. I have called the man up as you say. I have spent hours on the phone with John talking about how to promote or improve or source products or components. He has all of my private phone numbers and has called me at all hours. I was one of the two original prototypers of the BBC thats now in production. I want John to succeed as much as the next guy and I'm not DOWN on him, I'm UP on us. Some of us have run across what we perceive to be some problems with the Pantera that we cant contribute to our flying style, poor preflight or whatever and we cheerfully offer alternatives so others can avoid our experiences. Thats really all this is about so please dont try to make it anything more than that. Should we sit on our hands and watch some new guy's $1000 Pantera go spinning into the woods because he tossed a tailblade and pretend that it never happens? Of course not. It is an awesome machine that appears to have a couple fixable, preventable shortcomings.

If I was a betting man I'd say John is quietly addressing the concern about the tail -he's been unusually quiet on this particular topic but there has been way too many private reports of this same issue to ignore. If that tail gets addressed the only thing John will have to deal with is marketing and we can all help with that. If you have a Pantera and even if you're not flying it at an event, leave it out somewhere prominant. Don't hide it under a table. John gave me his blessing to give my local hobbyshop my name and phone numbers to keep at the register to be available to answer questions of any potential customers. I made a little flyer to post amoungst the replacement parts offering free assembly and help with setup of their Pantera. I guess that's just me being a downer huh Machinehead?

Marty,
Raptors,Evos, Panteras and more
11-19-2008 06:44 PM
 
 
Heli_Man_Bob
Heliman
Location: Miamisburg, Ohio, US

Machinehead01

First off I am happy with my choice to fly a Pantera and I would recommend it to others.

I agree with the principles of preventive maintenance and that if you are flying 3d you will need to replace parts more often due to the stresses of that style of flying.

As stated earlier I have replaced some of the stock parts though only one due to a surprise failure. I do not fly 3d only figure eights loops and rolls. You could say I have made a bet that the parts I have chosen will be more cost effective in the long run via an extended service life to cost ratio. I intend to enjoy flying this model for several years.

I still believe the Pantera represents an excellent value.

The Bottom line. clipped from above post by Machinehead01.
"All in all the grips probably could use some more meat at the ends"

The fragility is noted in the manual (Do not over tighten you have been warned)

This model was and is marketed as being affordable and of a durable design. Having owned and flown this model I find this has been true with one exception that is the design of the tail grips it just does not fit the rest of the picture. The rest of the components in the tail assembly are so well designed as to be heavy duty.

I chose the Pantera for several reasons and would choose it again.

1. The US distributor makes him self available hears the concerns of his customers and has taken action based on these concerns. I have seen examples of good will like the offer of a tail replacement at a reduced cost for Tiger owners. I have even seen a proposed 3d CAD drawing of an aluminum blade grip prepared by John. I believe that this concern with the tail grip design will be addressed in the future as well.

2. The overall durability of the design leading to cost effective ownership an example would be the choice of bearing sizes type and number of.

3. The design itself that leads to ease of set up and servicing. Example: Bearing blocks, Servo horns at 90-degrees.

4. Affordable price of the Kit + parts and as hoped for available aftermarket upgrades.

Signed

Proud Pantera owner
11-19-2008 07:50 PM
 
 
jbeech
Ex rrAdvertiser
Location: Sanford, FL (Orlando area)

Folks,

This is one of my famous massive missives. The short answer is we've made 9 separate improved parts since releasing the Pantera, to include a new tail grip. Below is the long version.

Upgrades and improvements take time to happen. Maybe I've been doing tit too quietly. Allow me to point out what I've done in the last 16 months, i.e. since introducing the Pantera . . .

1. When some said the AUD0055 Seesaw Arms were breaking too often, I developed an aluminum upgrade version. These are PDR0085 Aluminum Seesaw Arms. Unfortunately, we've only sold a few. The lesson I learned from this relates to jumping in to make an aluminum upgrade. Since I'm not rich like the Chinese companies, this just means I have to pick my battles with more care (plus we pay more than 70¢/hour). Anyway, this is one new upgrade, or improved, part we've made.

2. Meanwhile, despite my not selling an overwhelming number of the new aluminum seesaw arms, in a parallel development, we created a heavy duty plastic seesaw arm. A sharper businessman than me would likely have told customers to buy the aluminum part when people complained. However, I am a modeler like you, and since my basic premise is the Pantera is a helicopter, which doesn't need upgrades to perform, I forked over a fair chunk of change to develop the new seesaw arm, make new molds, and inject 1000 of them (500 sets). These new seesaw arms are part number AUD0055-2 Seesaw Arm and we have been shipping them in place of the AUD0055. This makes two new parts this year, but there's more.

3. When some folks were dissatisfied with our plastic swashplate, I made some aluminum upgrade units. Not a lot of them, but enough to see if the same thing would happen as had with the aluminum seesaw arms. Basically I was thinking, "fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me". As it turns out, the market for them is indeed relatively small, which means if I make 500 of them (so economies of scale kick in) I'll have at least a 10 year supply - same as I have for the aluminum seesaw arms! Unfortunately, with the current economic conditions, this isn't a good time to tie up our capital in this manner. Anyway, about once a month I get an order for one of these. I in turn contact the fellow and explain and invariably he's understanding of the situation and asks to be put on the list, which I do. Anyway, that's three new parts since I introduced the Pantera.

4. I've also had a few people (five) call about breaking the tail drive gear pinion (the one driven by main gear 2 that in turn has the pulley that drives the tail belt). I quickly learned most, if not all, of these machines had been crashed at one time, or another, so I wasn't really too worried. Nevertheless, thinking it would be a nice option part, I made some out of steel, AUD1011-2S Tail Drive Pinion, Steel, and not only are they in stock, but we have a picture of it on the website! Unfortunately, I've not sold many (less than 10), but nevertheless that makes four new upgraded, or improved, Pantera parts.

5. Along the way I had some folks tell me the felt the AUD0044 Tail Fins were breaking too easily. I learned they usually weren't using the decals, and since the decals are an integral part of the strength of the part, I immediately knew what was going on. No matter, I resolved to improve them and soon introduced AUD0044-2 Tail Fin, 3D. These are stronger, don't require the decal for strength, and are skeletonized (to reduce air resistence whilst in backwards flight). People liked them so much they pretty much stopped ordering the original and thus, while AUD0044 remains available, I am not likely to make more (especially since, once again, a new run is 500 sets). This makes five new parts!

6. Some folks (really good 3D pilots principally) wanted me to stiffen the head assembly so we created the one-piece aluminum head block option, which is PDR0045 Main Rotor Hub, Aluminum. Frankly, this is a far stronger solution than the stock aluminum/plastic 2-piece stock unit. It tangibly improves flight, but it really takes a good pilot to recognize the difference. But once again, like the aluminum seesaw arms (and swashplates), I've only sold a few of these aluminum upgrade parts - and not enough to really encourage me to make a bunch of new aluminum parts. Anyway, that makes six new, or upgraded, parts!

7. The first batch of Panteras shipped with Tiger 50 main landing gear struts, which are part number AUD0033. They are light, which was an important consideration for me because I figured more expert pilots would prefer the Pantera versus the Tiger. However, people complained about breaking them, especially on their Tiger 50, so we developed AUD0033-2 Landing Gear Strut, Heavy Duty. We ended up putting them into the second batch of the Pantera (and the fourth batch of the Tiger 50) as the stock unit. While AUD0033 remains available because better pilots prefer them for their lower weight, I am not going to make another batch of 500 any time soon. When they're gone, they're gone. Anyway, this makes seven upgrade, or improved, parts.

8. Some folks wanted a fiberglass canopy option. I worked to design three different sets, which are made in America. Unfortunately, the quality leaves something to be desired, especially if you're new to the sport (experienced modelers don't mind the time they spend prepping them for paint because they recognize I am not in volume production with these). However, the quality issue plus the fellow making them for me had health problems so I stopped (I have a few left) ANyway, the only way to get economies of scale to kick in is to make 500 at a time. I was pretty deep int9o this project when the economy slowed down and this means being cvery careful with an expenditure so the project has to wait. Regardless, this makes eight (10 if you count the fact we have three versions) new, or improved, parts we've made available since introducing the Pantera.

9. This brings us to the tail rotor grips. Folks, MartyH is right, I really haven't been sitting on my hands. However, while I recognize a few have failed, I also know that out of more than 2500 models with them, the total that have failed is 17 - I know because I have the database of units sold for repairing models. Unfortunately it's happened twice to MartyH, so he's taking me out for a walk about it - heavy sigh. Meanwhile, I have, in fact, recently completed a new design, which like the replacement seesaw arm, are more heavy duty. They're in stock and shipping (have been for about a month, or so). They're the same part number AUD0042-2 Tail Rotor Grip and are a drop in replacement for the original, i.e. they use the same bearings and hub. Anyway, this makes nine new, or upgraded, Pantera parts since I originally released the model.

What's more, I'm not done! I have a few more things up my sleeve, which I'm not ready to talk about just yet. Unfortunately, with the US economy in crisis I have to be careful about how I run the business. After all, my first obligation is to remain in business so we come out the other side of this recession. This means looking long and hard at how operate it. For example, the Pantera fuel tank fits the Tiger with the mere addition of the Pantera rubber isolation mounts. Since I have to make 500 parts in a run, and because I sell fewer than a dozen fuel tanks in a year (Tiger and Pantera combined), once I ran out of the Tiger tanks it was easy to decide to shift folks to the AUD0028-2 instead. While it made some folks unhappy, this was a sound business decision, and I have no regrets because I have to think about the big picture.

What's the future portend? I don't really know but with respect to recessions, I've been there, done that. Presently, I have things in hand and I think we'll be OK. Over the summer folks slowed down buying, but they've not stopped, and recently, probably because they've been feeling the pinch, we've had a resurgence in sales. When querried, folks tell me it's a matter of price, i.e. the Pantera priced below $300 is a significant factor. I'm a little sad because I think we beat a lot of machines on features but I've just not done a good enough job of communicating this - really heavy sigh.

Anyway, I know my product's not perfect, but whose product is? In my view, only God is perfect, and thus, I am doing the best I can. I also think anybody reflecting on what we've accomplished in the last year will agree we're not being lax about improving the Pantera.

Finally, thanks for hanging in with me.

My 2¢


John Beech - GM (and janitor)
Audacity Models
11-19-2008 07:53 PM
 
 
MartyH
Key Veteran
Location: Lawrenceburg, Indiana

That was no missive John, that was just a typical post....for you. hehe. THANK YOU for making more of this public. I thought I was going to turn blue keeping some of this to myself. ALL of the upgrades or changes are welcome. I suspected the tail was getting addressed but we'd never actually spoken about it.

The fueltank change is absolutely something you needed to do even if it did catch me at the wrong time. haha.

I had forgotten about the seesaw issues and guys, I can attest to the quality of the newer plastic ones John mentioned. I had been flying that on the Pantera that lost the tail. The arms survived and they are an improvement not just in strength but in function as well.

The metal headblock I am also flying and like a lot. The metal swash as it was being produced with the previous vendor was the best of all the swashes that fit the Pantera.

I dont use the decals on the fins and notice they do vibrate quite a bit and certainly understand how the decal is a structural part of the fins. I guess the cut out, stronger fins you eluded to are the ones shipping in the UK version of the Pantera? I've seen pictures of those. I didnt know they were available to us. As for the landing gear, the lighter gear makes all the sense in the world. I didnt know you still had some of those. I think I need to place an order. I'll place my faith in the new tail grips. I know that if you addressed it, its likely going to be a non-issue from here forward.

Marty,
Raptors,Evos, Panteras and more
11-19-2008 08:21 PM
 
 
Nashville
Elite Veteran
Location: Music City USA

Thanks for the update John. It's always refreshing to hear a company responding to his clients needs. I know several other heli companies out there that would never man up and respond.

I was Spektrum when Spektrum wasn't cool
11-19-2008 08:24 PM
 
 
MartyH
Key Veteran
Location: Lawrenceburg, Indiana

I just ordered a set of the cutout "3D" fins and a pair of the new tail rotor grips. I'll report back when I have these flying.

Marty,
Raptors,Evos, Panteras and more
11-19-2008 09:38 PM
 
 
Kjarman
Senior Heliman
Location: noblesville, IN

Yeah.... finally JB.... I have been sitting on the new tail blade grip thing since IRCHA.....

The new one's are much more beefy... You all will love them...

I sold another one to Terrafirma...... wife wants to know where the money's at!!!!
11-19-2008 11:14 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
billm
Key Veteran
Location: Liberty Lake, WA

I was going to comment, but I won't. I could go into injection molding design engineering as "I are one". But I won't as I enjoy the banter. I just look to the sky and laugh as I remember all the years attending Stanford.
Waiting for the stuff from John to play with.

My name is Billm. Cough, and I'm a Heli Holic
11-20-2008 02:16 AM
 
 
Machinehead01
Senior Heliman
Location: USA

Good Lord!!

My spelling sucks!! I didn't mean to put you on front street JB!! And picking a fight wasn't my intention either. Suffice it to say I think I took somethings out on Marty that weren't his to own. Just fed up with alot of things here lately, and life just keeps kickin, down or not. Take care all, and God bless (this I know we could ALL use).

Thomas

I didn't say it was your fault, I said I was going to blame you!
11-20-2008 05:09 AM
 
 
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