RunRyder - Vbar Trex 500 setup- What am I doing wrong here?

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Flybarless Rotor Head Systems > Vbar Trex 500 setup- What am I doing wrong here?

badbill
Heliman
Location: Centerville, Georgia

This is killin' me, got to be something simple. This is my second Vbar setup, first was my TRex 600E which was easy????!!

I'm setting it up in Classic, loading the preset. JR 12X radio, AR7000 rx. Back servo plugged into ch 1, rt aileron in ch3, left aileron in ch4. For the LIFE of me, I can't get the collective to go the right way, if the elevator goes the right way. Just one or the other. I can get it working perfect, but pulling the throttle stick back gives it positive pitch, and vice versa. I can reverse that, but if I do the elevator is backwards. HELP!

Also, the tail servo is acting funny- it seems to center way over to one side. It's a JR3500G. Which servo selection works best for that???

Thanks in advance,

Bill Davenport
AMA 28141

11-16-2008 10:08 PM

badbill
Heliman
Location: Centerville, Georgia

Well, I've gotten it to work right, but am not happy about how I did it. I simply reversed the pitch channel in the transmitter. Now in the calibration portion of the setup, the collective is backwards, and it also is backwards in manual control. But I finish setup and with the transmitter it works as intended; including when I rock the heli back and forth, and side to side the corrections are as they should be. I don't understand though, it's just like a smaller version of my 600E which came out perfectly with everything reading as intended. ????

Bill Davenport
AMA 28141

11-16-2008 11:24 PM

laughingstill
Elite Veteran
Location: Gainesville, Fl, USA

Bill, did you try reversing the servo in the expert setup menu?

3DMP-E, Logo 6003D, Logo103D Carbon and Trex 450se Flyin Firefighter

11-16-2008 11:27 PM

badbill
Heliman
Location: Centerville, Georgia

No, I've got to say I didn't... been kind of trying to avoid expert mode, esp. since the 600 worked out so well. Should I do it anyway?

Bill Davenport
AMA 28141

11-16-2008 11:30 PM

badbill
Heliman
Location: Centerville, Georgia

I just tried reversing the servo in expert mode, it's no different than reversing it in classic.

Bill Davenport
AMA 28141

11-16-2008 11:39 PM

laughingstill
Elite Veteran
Location: Gainesville, Fl, USA

It shouldn't be any different in expert mode to classic, I just assumed you didn't try it in either mode. So when you reverse the problem servo in the software, the direction does not change?

3DMP-E, Logo 6003D, Logo103D Carbon and Trex 450se Flyin Firefighter

11-16-2008 11:47 PM

badbill
Heliman
Location: Centerville, Georgia

Yes, the direction changes- but no one servo change or multiple of them will allow the elevator AND the collective to both work properly. At least after 4 hours of trying, no combination works. Either one or the other is backwards. No such problem with the 600, or any of the conventionally flybarred helis I've built ( number probably approaching 100 or so )

Bill Davenport
AMA 28141

11-16-2008 11:54 PM

badbill
Heliman
Location: Centerville, Georgia

Unfortunatly, my 600 is at work. I'm going to plug it in tomorrow and see where everything is set- for the life of me, I can't see where it is that much different than the 500. I must be doing something stupid here.

Bill Davenport
AMA 28141

11-16-2008 11:56 PM

Talron
Heliman
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba - Canada

Try following this:

http://vstabi.de/user_wiki/index.ph...r_and_Endpoints

Let us know how you make out,

Ron

11-17-2008 01:55 AM

HOMEPAGE

inkspot1967
rrProfessor
Location: cranston ri.

use the 9253/9254 servo on a 3500g

Trex700e Ray N e- kit & "Fueled By Hate" Head
Next-D Rave Flybarless
Outrage Battery

11-17-2008 02:43 AM

puma1824
Senior Heliman
Location: Maryland, USA, MHA Member

If Cyclic is correct and only collective is reverse, try changing the common collective to opposite of what you have it. Example if it's 90 then set it for -90

One brain fart of a thing I did when I first started setting up my first Vbar (Trex 500) was calibrate the Elevator reverse (dumb move) remember Up Elevator is pulling the Cyclic back, so the indicator in the Vbar software will go "up" but your stick will be down. My mistake looking at the bars instead of looking at the label/writing.

11-17-2008 02:58 AM

badbill
Heliman
Location: Centerville, Georgia

Just took a look at my 600 setup. Nothing really applies, it just worked out. I think the common collective adjustment will fix the problem with the 500, I'll try it when I get home and thanks much. But that creates another question- if there is a preset program for the 500, and that's what I used, why would it require going in there and changing the common collective? Seems funny that it just won't work at all without using the expert mode. Thanks everyone for all the help!

Bill Davenport
AMA 28141

11-17-2008 03:58 PM

puma1824
Senior Heliman
Location: Maryland, USA, MHA Member

Quote

The preset is just a baseline, just like the one I provided when I first started BUT there are many variables which could make it drastically different. One being Leading Edge or Trailing Edge control. LE will be one way TE will be the opposite. Also the way you mount the sensor, cable facing front or cable facing back. One way will effect sensor direction. If you mount the sensor 180 degrees different than the reference build than your sensors will be off...catastrophically off!

11-17-2008 04:01 PM

GScott
Key Veteran
Location: Lewis Center, OH

Just out of curiousity what head conversion did you use? If you used the Mikado conversion for the 500 and didn't do the grip flip your collective will be opposite. Swash down will give positive and swash up will give negative. I just did a 500 ESP over the weekend using the Mikado conversion and everything worked out great. Well other than having 1-2 degrees more positive than negative

11-17-2008 04:48 PM

badbill
Heliman
Location: Centerville, Georgia

I used the Mikado head conversion, with leading edge grip controls.
How did yours work out perfect???? You used trailing edge?

Mine is the new 500ESP also. Beautiful kit.

Bill Davenport
AMA 28141

11-17-2008 04:52 PM

puma1824
Senior Heliman
Location: Maryland, USA, MHA Member

Quote
Just out of curiousity what head conversion did you use? If you used the Mikado conversion for the 500 and didn't do the grip flip your collective will be opposite. Swash down will give positive and swash up will give negative. I just did a 500 ESP over the weekend using the Mikado conversion and everything worked out great. Well other than having 1-2 degrees more positive than negative

You can take out the 1-2 degrees of pos if you'd like by changing your pitch curve on your TX.

Quote
I used the Mikado head conversion, with leading edge grip controls. How did yours work out perfect???? You used trailing edge?

There you go, there's your answer/problem! I know when I setup for Leading Edge Control I had to "opposite" the Common Collective preload. The provided Preload is / was setup for trailing edge.

When you change the CC you'll have to probably reverse the wires that you switch back to the documented wiring.

11-17-2008 05:15 PM

badbill
Heliman
Location: Centerville, Georgia

Quote
There you go, there's your answer/problem!

Yup, that would be it.

I'm now curious about another thing. What all are you "allowed" to adjust in the tx? I thought nothing, yet reading in the wiki it talks of adjusting subtrims- others are using expo, and you speak of adjusting the pitch curve. What's right to use and what's wrong? Will the tx trims work properly?

Bill Davenport
AMA 28141

11-17-2008 06:12 PM

badbill
Heliman
Location: Centerville, Georgia

Quote
use the 9253/9254 servo on a 3500g

That's odd, I couldn't get it working well with that one. Ended up using the 8700 and it seems right now...

Bill Davenport
AMA 28141

11-17-2008 06:22 PM

puma1824
Senior Heliman
Location: Maryland, USA, MHA Member

Quote
Yup, that would be it. I'm now curious about another thing. What all are you "allowed" to adjust in the tx? I thought nothing, yet reading in the wiki it talks of adjusting subtrims- others are using expo, and you speak of adjusting the pitch curve. What's right to use and what's wrong? Will the tx trims work properly?

Pitch and throttle curves can be modified as you normally would and D/R and Expo work the same. What's not "allowed" is any trimming or subtrimming in the radio. I believe this is AFTER it's been setup as normal. I've "zeroed" out the subtrim on TX so 0 / center on the TX is 0/ center on the Vbar. Some argue that you shouldn't but I've found when I don't, if I put the TX at 0 collective and HAVE NOT zeroed it out, 0 pitch is off from the reference point when I select "Adjustment Mode".

11-17-2008 09:07 PM

Funky Trex
Key Veteran
Location: Westerville, OH - USA

I love all of the conflicting info on setting up V-Bar

Some people have said absolutely no subtrim or reversing in the TX, some have told me it is fine. I had to use subtrim, reversing and travel adjust to get my Logo setup but I still haven't had a chance to fly it... I just hope it works without beating itself into the ground.

Can't wait to see your 500 Gary... just be ready for "Can i try it??"

11-18-2008 04:00 AM

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