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e-MS Composit Hornet > Hornet II pics

Lowell Foo
Senior Heliman
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada

I've added some pictures to my gallery.
http://www.runryder.com/helicopter/gallery/24912/

Some frame stiffening and weight savings ideas.

01-18-2005 Over year old.

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Blade-X
Senior Heliman
Location: Singapore

Thanks Lowell,
I finally understand what u are talking about.... may i know how much ur hornet weighs? I realised my mistakes.... the hornet 2 really flies well if i keep in the weight limits as stated by MS... 320g to 340g... was inspired by Walt's 285g H2 on the Hornet heli forum....

01-19-2005 Over year old.

Lowell Foo
Senior Heliman
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada

Right now it weighs 332g with a GWS 1050 pack (not enough amps for 3D) and 354g with a TP1320. With the 1050 pack and no canopy, it will hover for 10 min, which is exactly the same hover time I get with the 1320 pack w/ canopy. So an extra 12% weight on the heli (38g/316g) seems to chew up an extra 25% more battery in hover. (270/1050)

01-19-2005 Over year old.

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Blade-X
Senior Heliman
Location: Singapore

DEar Lowell,
I find that a difference of 20grams in AUW is already quite noticeable in handling..... I'm now struggling to reduce the weight of the canopy.... I put 7 coats of paint on it.,... ( first timer ..silly me) ... it weighs over 20g!!!!! It flies so much better without canopy on.... I dun have an exact weight reading...from the kitchen scale my AUW is 340g++ with Etecs 1200HP.... It really feels much better than when it was at 366g....

01-20-2005 Over year old.

Lowell Foo
Senior Heliman
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada

I have found the H2 canopies vary in weight from 10-15g unpainted. Buy a few extras and use the lightest one.

01-20-2005 Over year old.

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andras
Senior Heliman
Location: EU

My brand new H2 (not flown yet) weighs 235g without the battery and canopy, but with everything else. It's a stock H2 with Bell-Hiller and one-way upgrades, both from MS. The only non-stock thing is the brushless motor which I made from a DIY kit. So it really isn't too hard to stay below 300g AUW. The battery is still in the post, it's going to be a 910mAh 3S Kokam, 60g or so.

András

01-21-2005 Over year old.

Lowell Foo
Senior Heliman
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada

What does your DIY motor weigh?

01-21-2005 Over year old.

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andras
Senior Heliman
Location: EU

38.7g including wires and connectors but without pinion and fixing bolts.

András

01-21-2005 Over year old.

Blade-X
Senior Heliman
Location: Singapore

Andras... please post pics of ur motor

.. a Hornet 2 weighing 235g without battery... neat....

01-21-2005 Over year old.

andras
Senior Heliman
Location: EU

This is the motor: http://aircraft-world.com/shopexd.asp?id=2746

I wound it 10 turns in 0.56mm wire, currently using the 13t pinion but will have to change that in order to get a higher head speed.

I spun the heli up this morning to full bore, that is a head speed of 1700-1800 (not measured yet) with the current pinion. At zero collective, current was less than 2A, so this thing is capable of a lot more. Wow what a feeling... it all ended when I added full collective (while holding the heli on the ground of course) and the blast sucked a big cardboard box that was in the corner right into the blades. The Like90 blades both have a few paint marks from the box, and the motor pinion slipped, but no other damage was done and even this lot was quickly repaired. Next thing is to track the blades, then I can hopefully fly over the week-end and set gyro gain (currently on 50% and seems to work great on the ground, even without blades installed!).

Set-up: stock H2 with Bell-Hiller and one-way upgrades. Motor is the DIY from ACW, ESC is Phoenix-10, battery will be 3S once it gets here. Blades are Like90 weighted wood. RX: Schulze 835, gyro CSM 200 lightweight, servos 4x Waypoint 084. I think the weight saving comes mostly from the gyro and the RX, plus the motor of course (the supplied 300 weighs 50g!).

András

01-21-2005 Over year old.

Lowell Foo
Senior Heliman
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada

When you get everything sorted out, it would be interesting to see what kind of thrust you can get out of that motor. The way I've been testing is by taping the skids to a scale and using negative pitch.

01-21-2005 Over year old.

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Marcellus
Heliman
Location: Annecy - France

Hi Lowell

I see in this pic :

that you're using a 22/08/20 axi motor.
wich pinion are you using on this motor ?
how many Amps did you measure ?

Cheers
Marcellus

01-22-2005 Over year old.

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andras
Senior Heliman
Location: EU

photos!

OK, I've taken some photos of the beast:

Overview:

Side view showing motor, battery, and other bits (e.g. how the gyro is mounted):

Bottom view showing motor, ESC, receiver (the hole in the CF main frame gives access to the interference indicator light on the RX -- nice!):

Head speed is currently in the 1500RPM range (measured), not as much as I initially thought. The heli does get off the ground with the small battery (600mAh 3S from a Shockflyer), but the low tail rotor speed doesn't allow the gyro to control yaw, so it always tends to yaw left. If only I knew where to get a bigger pinion from?!

András

P.S.: AUW is 290g as shown. With canopy and the 910mAh Kokam that's still on its way, it would be more like 310g.

01-22-2005 Over year old.

Lowell Foo
Senior Heliman
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada

I have tried 24 through 28t on the AXI motor, and best power is with the 27t. On 28t the AXI struggles to turn the blades, and power isn't any better than 27t, but the motor sure gets hot.
I don't know what the amp draw is, but on a TP1320 pack it will stationary hover for 10 min straight. I figure around 7 amps to hover.

01-22-2005 Over year old.

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Marcellus
Heliman
Location: Annecy - France

thank you Lowell
where did you find a 27t pinion ?

Cheers
Marcellus

01-22-2005 Over year old.

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Lowell Foo
Senior Heliman
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada

Robinson Racing Products
http://www.robinsonracing.com/catal...pinion.html#pro

01-22-2005 Over year old.

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Marcellus
Heliman
Location: Annecy - France

great ! thank you !

I only needed to know that it's 64p.
Gonna check my LHS for 64P car pinion.

Cheers
Marcellus

01-23-2005 Over year old.

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Blade-X
Senior Heliman
Location: Singapore

Lowell,
I manage to get my Hornet 2 with Etecs 1200Hp AUW to 334g on an electronic scale.... I know this is still fat compared to other cool setups... but the difference is so huge! I definitely am more confident of flying it around now with the lighter rotor loading ... I feel the loops are also easier (26t on the AXI).... compared to 366g with a 25t pinion.... My shulze rx is coming in this week.... so i can reduce another 5 - 8g....... I will cut holes in the side of my canopy to reduce some weight as well.... (14 coats of paint is a bad idea)....

Andras,
Do you think the DIY motor u got will work with a Twister MS-113 Esc?

01-24-2005 Over year old.

andras
Senior Heliman
Location: EU

I think just about any ESC would be OK with that motor. It's a low pole count design (6 coils, 8 magnets), the only thing you need to worry about is current draw, but you can vary that a lot by using a different number of turns per winding. I.e. you could have more turns, run off a higher voltage, but on a lower current. I used 10 turns with the goal of running it comfortably on 3S within the 10A continuous limit of the ESC. The bigger pinions should be here early next week, I can give you figures then.

Actually, the H2 is a lot of fun even with the small pinion -- it's quite interesting to hear the tail stall in any kind of climb while the gyro struggles to keep the thing straight

BTW, do you guys use the stock canopy, or do you buy something easier to use (i.e. something that's in one piece to begin with)?

András

01-24-2005 Over year old.

Blade-X
Senior Heliman
Location: Singapore

WEll andras, i've heard that initially there were some that hated the H2 stock canopy on RCg and used the Century HummingBird canopys.... I'm intending on trying one but am not sure if it's a good thing.... there's so many electronics mounted on the front tray and the hummer cano may not hold up in a crash, being so soft and flexible.....

I really like a light H2 setup ... it feels like a race car..... fast.. and light.... responsive.... albeit it suffers more in the wind... the other thing is ur flying cost becomes cheaper also... as u get more flight time with the same batt capacity.... My only complaint is that my 4.9g servos keep losing their centers.... When i get more $$ I'll try to switch to Lowell's setup.... duzi head and mH oneway... setcrews instead of cross pins on the shaft....

01-24-2005 Over year old.

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e-MS Composit Hornet > Hornet II pics

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